Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 28, 2018 17:42:24 GMT -6
Exhibit A: when musicians assign virtue to style changes and incorporate it as part of their marketing plans
see: Opeth or In Flames
There is no inherent virtue in switching from growling to clean singing or going from melodeath to almost radio pop and yet I hear this all the time from bands. It’s aggravating.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 28, 2018 20:05:39 GMT -6
Magnets
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Post by sanitarium78 on Aug 28, 2018 21:32:46 GMT -6
Exhibit A: when musicians assign virtue to style changes and incorporate it as part of their marketing plans see: Opeth or In Flames There is no inherent virtue in switching from growling to clean singing or going from melodeath to almost radio pop and yet I hear this all the time from bands. It’s aggravating. Maybe there is no virtue in it but bands gotta make money otherwise they end up being one of those acts that Adam Clark sees playing in somebody's basement. That's no way to make a living. Trying to expand their audience and actually make some money is why bands make such drastic sound changes. Not sure if a band like In Flames has seen the results they were hoping for by changing so much though.
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metalisart
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Post by metalisart on Aug 29, 2018 2:19:41 GMT -6
Exhibit A: when musicians assign virtue to style changes and incorporate it as part of their marketing plans see: Opeth or In Flames There is no inherent virtue in switching from growling to clean singing or going from melodeath to almost radio pop and yet I hear this all the time from bands. It’s aggravating. In Flames ignoring almost all of their "pre style change" albums live puzzles me. Imagine if Slayer played like 15 songs from the albums after 1990 and only 5 from before...
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Aug 29, 2018 2:26:18 GMT -6
Exhibit A: when musicians assign virtue to style changes and incorporate it as part of their marketing plans see: Opeth or In Flames There is no inherent virtue in switching from growling to clean singing or going from melodeath to almost radio pop and yet I hear this all the time from bands. It’s aggravating. Depends if they're good at it.
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metalisart
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Post by metalisart on Aug 29, 2018 2:28:10 GMT -6
Opeth is.
But Akerfeldt is just one big troll.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 29, 2018 2:58:42 GMT -6
hey, some of those shows are in attics
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 29, 2018 3:00:23 GMT -6
But I think some of those bands change things up in such major ways because the members grow out of that style of music. With Opeth it was at least a natural progression. With In Flames it was to try make better music, since their last two albums are their best two albums.
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Aug 29, 2018 3:15:03 GMT -6
Are we only talking music here, because I could list so fucking many things. Although, virtually all of them are human behaviours, so could just save us all a lot of time:
Human behaviour
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metalisart
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Post by metalisart on Aug 29, 2018 3:31:59 GMT -6
But I think some of those bands change things up in such major ways because the members grow out of that style of music. With Opeth it was at least a natural progression. With In Flames it was to try make better music, since their last two albums are their best two albums. I still haven't listened to those albums...
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 29, 2018 9:39:09 GMT -6
Are we only talking music here, because I could list so fucking many things. Although, virtually all of them are human behaviours, so could just save us all a lot of time: Human behaviour Nope not just music, any damn thing you please!
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 29, 2018 9:39:41 GMT -6
But I think some of those bands change things up in such major ways because the members grow out of that style of music. With Opeth it was at least a natural progression. With In Flames it was to try make better music, since their last two albums are their best two albums. :lol: Oh stop it
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Post by sanitarium78 on Aug 29, 2018 19:14:31 GMT -6
But I think some of those bands change things up in such major ways because the members grow out of that style of music. With Opeth it was at least a natural progression. With In Flames it was to try make better music, since their last two albums are their best two albums. That's a big reason for musical changes as well. People change as time goes on and if they're heart isn't into a certain style any more they need to change it. Otherwise you get songs that don't come from a sincere place. Whether or not the music is any good the song writers should always stay true to what they're feeling at the time.
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 30, 2018 7:30:04 GMT -6
Opeth and In Flames were deliberate in their actions to change sounds.
Reroute to Remain was a conscious decision by IF to cater more to the masses. If you look at their counterparts in Dark Tranquillity, they are doing just as well if not better and they haven't switched a thing. Hell, DT are about to head out on tour with Amorphis and Moonspell while In Flames in some sorry support slot for a week opening up for FFDP and Breaking Benjamin in c-markets.
Opeth's change was a deliberate decision as well...Mikey didn't grow out of anything, in fact after Watershed he was writing the follow up to it in the same style as he usually does and was talked out of it by Mendez. I just think he lost the ability to growl properly and had to move on except for a few songs live.
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metalisart
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Post by metalisart on Aug 30, 2018 7:31:04 GMT -6
Opeth and In Flames were deliberate in their actions to change sounds. Reroute to Remain was a conscious decision by IF to cater more to the masses. If you look at their counterparts in Dark Tranquillity, they are doing just as well if not better and they haven't switched a thing. Hell, DT are about to head out on tour with Amorphis and Moonspell while In Flames in some sorry support slot for a week opening up for FFDP and Breaking Benjamin in c-markets. Opeth's change was a deliberate decision as well...Mikey didn't grow out of anything, i n fact after Watershed he was writing the follow up to it in the same style as he usually does and was talked out of it by Mendez. I just think he lost the ability to growl properly and had to move on except for a few songs live. Wait, what???
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Aug 30, 2018 7:55:59 GMT -6
So, backing up a little, why are those deliberate decisions wrong? It's not like either of them did it for cheap commercial success. In the case of Opeth, it wasn't even a marketing thing. They basically straight up said "this is happening, fuck you if you don't like it."
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 30, 2018 8:07:13 GMT -6
Opeth and In Flames were deliberate in their actions to change sounds. Reroute to Remain was a conscious decision by IF to cater more to the masses. If you look at their counterparts in Dark Tranquillity, they are doing just as well if not better and they haven't switched a thing. Hell, DT are about to head out on tour with Amorphis and Moonspell while In Flames in some sorry support slot for a week opening up for FFDP and Breaking Benjamin in c-markets. Opeth's change was a deliberate decision as well...Mikey didn't grow out of anything, i n fact after Watershed he was writing the follow up to it in the same style as he usually does and was talked out of it by Mendez. I just think he lost the ability to growl properly and had to move on except for a few songs live. Wait, what??? Here you are
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 30, 2018 8:20:11 GMT -6
So, backing up a little, why are those deliberate decisions wrong? It's not like either of them did it for cheap commercial success. In the case of Opeth, it wasn't even a marketing thing. They basically straight up said "this is happening, fuck you if you don't like it." The weird thing is when being signed to major labels is that they also get pressure from them as well since those labels are basically paying for them to be there. The truth is none of us know if any band is given full creative control or if they are told to go in one direction or the other. My stance is if you want to make music for yourself, go ahead and do it and then enjoy the record in your living room in front of an audience of one. That's truly making music for yourself. If you want others to buy it, you introduce risk into the mix. Do you make something that pleases yourself, do you make something that pleases fans, a mix of both? Bands take the "we make music for ourselves" line way too far sometimes because it's not entirely true, they make music for the fanbases they are trying to court. Established bands know they they could release farts in the wind and if it has the right name on it then people will buy it. Hell Metallica released that Lulu garbage and according to Wikipedia (sorry) "Lulu debuted in the top 10 of the charts in eight countries." I am very hesitant to use the term "selling out" because I think it's overused and misplaced most of the time so I won't go there. I'm not saying the deliberate decision is wrong per se, although I do think In Flames in fact did do it for cheap commercial success...it just hasn't worked out for them yet. Opeth I think just did it because Mike enjoys the 70's music style more than any other and since he fully admits he rips off bands all the time (which is actually true), this was an easy path to get it done. The last 3 albums sound pretty lazy music and lyric wise whereas a record like Damnation obviously doesn't, that's a near perfect record. Look, what the hell do I know anyway? This is all goddamn speculation, I just happened to find it interesting.
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Aug 31, 2018 5:43:57 GMT -6
When support bands create their own tour posters that bill them above the headliners.
You're ain't foolin' anyone, fucktards.
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 31, 2018 7:32:20 GMT -6
^never seen that lol
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Aug 31, 2018 7:47:09 GMT -6
I've seen loads do it. They don't outright claim they're the headliners, but they'll make their own version of the tour poster, where the artwork/photo used is theirs, with their logo at the top, a big tour heading, etc., and in a corner or to one side it'll say "supporting this actual band". The example (far from the most blatant I've ever seen) that made me think of this:
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 31, 2018 8:07:45 GMT -6
I'm surprised the headliners and their labels are ok with that.
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Post by sanitarium78 on Aug 31, 2018 10:16:34 GMT -6
I'm surprised the headliners and their labels are ok with that. Does the label have anything to do with that though? That poster looks like something the opening act would create themselves in order to promote their name.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Aug 31, 2018 10:57:28 GMT -6
Yeah, that’s a new one
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Aug 31, 2018 12:51:19 GMT -6
I'm surprised the headliners and their labels are ok with that. Does the label have anything to do with that though? That poster looks like something the opening act would create themselves in order to promote their name. Usually tour posters have a label insignia on them and openers I'd imagine sign contracts to perform on the tour. I guess there's no "thou shalt not self-advertise using the main act's likeness or portrayal in any other positions other than the headliner" clause.
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metalisart
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Post by metalisart on Sept 2, 2018 3:37:33 GMT -6
How this band went from this
To
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Sept 2, 2018 9:53:39 GMT -6
Agreed. U2 starting in 2000 went from absolute creative genius to supermarket PA heroes.
Although I will say they have turned out at least a few really tunes in that time, but they aren’t the “hits” and are forgotten at this point.
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Sept 5, 2018 7:57:43 GMT -6
The use of "inbox" as a verb.
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ravenheart
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Post by ravenheart on Sept 5, 2018 10:51:26 GMT -6
Another example of the support act tour poster thing:
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Maideneer
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Post by Maideneer on Sept 5, 2018 12:19:51 GMT -6
So strange, I really don't think I've ever seen this in the US so is it a Europe thing?
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